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CA binding method
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=15005		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Matthew Bryan [ Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hello all,
Well I on vacation till next year and have time to work on my build. I have put shellac over the edge of the guitar and routed the binding channel with no problems. This is great because I was relly nervous about it.

Next comes the installation of the binding itself. I have the stewmac balck 0.009" binding and have heated it to a form that is very close to my guitar shape. It is not perferct but very close. I am going to use the Weldon cement from stewmac for the large radius areas but will probably use CA for the waist and the cutaway.

I got the binding because I thought it would be forgiving visually because of it's thickness. I found that it was very hard to bend and keep bent to what I wanted. So the CA method came to mind to work in small areas, spray accelerator lightly (or baking soda), then wick in water thin CA glue to bond the binding where I want it and when I want it.

The only question I have on the CA method is do I put shellac in the channel prior to putting the accelerator and glue? I have searched the forum and am confused on this point. Again I have shellac over the top and sides already when I routed the channel....do I need it in the channel as well to prevent staining?

Also, if you have any tips or links to individuals methods here on this subjedct this would be great.

Thanks again!
Author:  Rod True [ Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:34 pm ]
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Yes, it is highly advisable to seal the binding channel before using the CA method. The CA does have a tendency to wick into the end grains and stain the top.

I attach my wood bindings with the CA method, it's very easy and really helps eliminate gaps because you see if there are any gaps that need closing before putting any adhesive to the binding.

Now, the binding you have, you're saying its 0.009" thick. Do you mean the 0.090" plastic binding from stew mac? This stuff shouldn't require bending in the form with high heat. Instead follow this advise from the Stew-Mac site found here

Plastic bindings soften quickly for bending when heated with a hair dryer or a heat gun held 8" away from the plastic. Keep the heat moving back and forth along a short section (4" - 8"). The binding will start to droop when it softens, so check it often and don’t let it soften too much!

Fit the wood or plastic binding into the body channel before it cools. Tape it in place until it cools and sets into the correct shape.

Read the rest of the article on binding too, it should help you out.

I've never used plastic bindings so I don't know if CA is your best bet. I would think the weld-on cement would be all you need to use for the entire job.
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Matthew I would not use CA either.

Instead I would use Weld-On as Rod suggests or what Todd Stock recommended a few days ago in another thread - LMI's FCA adhesive.

If you do go the CA route sealing the end grain is essential to avoid staining.

Here is a cut-and-paste from LMI's site:

Binding Adhesives




Our FCA, an industry standard used my
many large American factories, is finally available to the small shop
user. In the factory environment, it reduced the time the binding had
to be bound up to 24 hours! Steve Helgeson of Moonstone Guitars says it
has fast tack, sets up quickly and produces fewer fumes than other
products he’s used. Frank Ford was also very enthusiastic about it.
This product was developed using it in combination with 14 different
woods and 28 different plastics and it worked well with all. This means
you can use it on oilier woods like Cocobolo with good adhesion.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:39 am ]
Post subject: 
CA works fine with plastic binding. I like to rough up the gluing surfaces of plastic binding by rubbing it on a sheet of 100 grit sandpaper. This gives more of a tooth for the CA to grip. Fresh CA will slightly melt the surface of plastic binding which helps adhesion.

The only place in the binding ledge where you really need to pre-seal is the exposed end grain of the spuce.
Author:  James Orr [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:14 am ]
Post subject: 
I used LMI's plastic binding cement on the back and CA on the top of this
guitar. I didn't seal either channel and don't have any staining. But with
that said, I'll shoot a quick coat of spray can Zinnser's Bullseye shellac
from now on because it makes more sense to and doesn't take any time
at all.

I taped on the binding and purfling scheme with LMI's binding tape, then
dropped Hot Stuff's thinnest CA in the spacings. Trust me, it works. It
took me FOREVER to remove the binding in order to redo the purfling,
trying to slice it off with a razor blade.

Author:  Matthew Bryan [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for all the comments. I used my wife's hair drier to heat the binding and used blue tape to get to stay. Yes it is the 0.09"....sorry. I noticed that after a very short while the binding would move the tape at the waist and cutaway areas. So much that even the stewmac binding tape would not hold it down. It has a great great amount of spring back to it. I guess it was not heated up enough to form to the curves I was asking it to.

My fear using the weld on is that I would push and pull everything in its place, tape it up, walk away, then see the binding spring back and have a large gap.....or not even sit in the channel due to the spring back. That is why I was going for the CA.....that is to say when I put the binding in place, put glue, wait a few seconds and it stays put.

I went and bought me a heat gun today....present to me...and I'll try that. I guess what I am reading here is that if the binding is truly formed and bent to the curves of the guitar there will be no spring back to worry about. I will re-heat and re-bend it. It is a very thick binding.........

I guess I should have asked here first to see what I needed.

Thanks again!
Author:  grumpy [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mat, the CA method works very nicely. Don't fear...

 The nicest thing is you clamp everything 'dry. No glue. so, you take your time, get it right, then wick-in a bit(a bit!!!!!) of CA in between the pieces of tape, without accelerator. I like a medium, I guess. I used to think my favorite was very thin, until, I found what y'all refer to as thin. yikes!

My CA of choice are the little wee tubes at the hardware store. $2 for 2 tubes. Nice small tip, and doesn't wick-in forever. Grabs like gangbusters... Never had a stain issue, and have been doing the above since 1996. 2 tubes does a guitar...

I have other methods of choice for binding, and choose depending upon difficulty level. I now only use the CA method for the trickiest binding jobs, as the other are faster/easier. But for sure, it'll get 'er done.
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